Mojca Miklavec wrote:
In LuaTeX you define two "features": - trep (3 replacements) - tlig (8 ligatures) In XeTeX, these 11 and 4 others are combined in "mapping=tex-text". And I would like the ligatures to be the same on both engines, so I would like to clone the behavior from LuaTeX in XeTeX (once you decide what the default should be - from your reply I understand that you plan to change the behaviour) and split "mapping=tex-text" into more separate "mappings".
well, let'd assume that hardly anyone uses tlig, so then the 8 ligs (well, not really ligs) can be kept, saves us some some headache; and we just don't make it a default -)
That's fine by me, I would agree. Only: what about apostrophe (')? (I'm, you're, ..)
shouldn't that one be left untouched?
I'm not sure about it, but how is it with the apostrophe in I'm, don't, ... ?
I don't wanna know -)
I don't care too much about " -> right double quote and ` -> left single quote esp. the first one should better be left that way, and I never use ` (and have no idea what it's used for except in mysql and TeX source code)
how about a vote on the list ...
U+0021 U+0060; <>;U+00A1; ; !` -> inverted exclam U+003F U+0060; <>;U+00BF; ; ?` -> inverted question
U+003C U+003C; <>;U+00AB; ; << -> LEFT POINTING GUILLEMET U+003E U+003E; <>;U+00BB; ; >> -> RIGHT POINTING GUILLEMET let's get rid of it
Fine by me.
real weird things ... the french should use proper utf chars but well ...
i'd like to let caps and such go away completely for mkiv so maybe we end up with xetex defs versus luatex defs;
So ... perhaps Caps support needs to be rewritten in XeTeX as well :) I still don't understand how to get "bold italic sans caps" for example (just as I don't know how to get bold/bold italic math).
i think that caps (in xetex) can best be done by just defining an extra typeface and then switch typeface (fast too)
I use LuaTeX because: - sometimes Lua is really handy and you have a marvellous database for Unicode well integrated :), nice to inspect fonts etc. I use XeTeX because: - LuaTeX does't (or at least didn't) always work as it should. XeTeX "saved my life" in May because of some dirty LuaTeX bugs stopped the show in the middle (I already had a working copy - final PDF, and after minor modifications it stopped working)
that is because mkiv parses the text and if it becomes too weird, abusive, nonsence, offending it will enter a special mode
- others keep asking questions (and since I suggested or approved quite some bugs in XeTeX recently, I feel responsible for helping the victims :)
sure, also, for some apps xetex is more convenient (faster, and many docs re not that demanding so default feature handling can do the job well)
- to show off with Zapfino - I don't have it as OpenType :-)
hm, you mean that you're using the apple font model ... now who was talking about portability ...
In any case: what I really love about ConTeXt is that [more-or-less] no change is needed to compile the same (simple) document with either engine (and compare the result or to switch quickly if support in one engine is buggy).
so we should keep that property
When using lua that is no longer true, but still, same definitions and similar results with both engines would be nice. (Esp. if both engines will be merged in the future :)
by then i'm retired and you'll have to do the coding ... both engines fill in a niche and do that well so no problem to support both; eventually mkii will be the xetex thing and mkiv the luatex thing
The problem is that "features=default" implies "script=latn", which is not always desired. A copy of mapping=tex-text comes from tlig & trep substitution. we can fall back to dflt which in practice boils down to latn
That's probably better.
i removed the script/langs already
I assume that script=latn;language=dflt;+liga;+kern; is always on by default (were needed), so basically mapping=tex-text is the only thing that really needs to be added. well, i'd prefer ... only -- and --- and make anything else up to the user, which means, redefining default in cont-sys if needed
[Iwona-Bold.otf]:script=latn;language=dflt;+liga;+kern;mapping=tex-text;mapping=tex-text; two mappings?
I mean: the the font is called with mapping=tex-text;mapping=tex-text; whis doesn't make so much sense.
no, but let's not waste too much tex processing on it, doesn't hurt i guess
I can create two new mappings, so that "tlig=yes" would then be "mapping=tlig" and "trep=yes" would be "mapping=trep" instead of "mapping=tex-text".
yes, can be part of the context zip
We only need to agree which features are where (and you need to remove ?` from beginner's manual). Spanish users probably have it on keyboard and "others" either don't need it or will find it somehow.
ah .. manual rewriting ...
<< and >> are not needed either in my opinion.
Some (non-latin) fonts complain when one requests non-existing features. in xetex you mean?
Yes. Well, LuaTeX probably "complains" as well (as in report >> load otf: warning: Warning: Glyph 1423 is named fi which should mean it is mapped to Unicode U+FB01, but Glyph 207 already has that encoding. etc.) - complaining is a good thing in general, it only means "please do not use latin script for non-latin fonts". And "features=default" should prbably not force latin. (Then it should at least be "features=default-latin" or somothing similar.)
luatex does not care because it does nothing with features, it loads the file ... and, mkiv nicely checks for the features supported, so if you ask for mkmk in latin modern it will just ignore it (part of setting up the processing sequences and caches), mkiv does not even bother you with a message
Also, it might be handy to be able to define \definetypeface[basic][rm][Xserif][whatever][script=arab,language=...] (for now forget that one, interface needs to be extended once and properly).
\definefontsynonym[a][file:Iwona-Bold.otf][mapping=tex-text] doesn't work, so the only way seems to be \definefontfeature[xetex][mapping=tex-text] \definefontsynonym[a][file:Iwona-Bold.otf][xetex]
I have tried to use \definefontfeature[xetex][mapping=tex-text] \definefontfeature[caps][+smcp] \definefontsynonym[a][file:Iwona-Bold.otf][features={xetex,caps}] but that didn't work. indeed, handling comma separated lists is too slow there .. ok, we can do it for xetex and in luatex use lua for it ... or i could hash the commalist itself ... needs a bit of thinking but eventually we need to be able to combine features (this even more points into a separate definition file for xetex)
That's up to you. I don't know anything about internals here.
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